QUESTIONS ABOUT BLEEDING RTL BRAKES

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05-18-2018, 08:45 PM
Mad Mac

QUESTIONS ABOUT BLEEDING RTL BRAKES

Decided to bleed the brakes on our machine today because I felt that the pedal was a little "mushy". I had 2" of pedal movement before I felt any "braking resistance" so I thought their was air in the system. Pulled the front wheels and had the wife press on the pedal and I bled the left front 1st, then the right front next. Went to the rear and bled that caliper, had steady stream of fluid out of all 3 calipers. I gained 1/2" less pedal travel before resistance was felt(1 1/2"total instead of 2"). I just don't remember what the pedal felt like when it was new, when the pads, fluid, and hopefully no air in system. I d/n use a vacuum type bleeder, I did it "old school" and I've done ATV's, snowmobiles, motorcycles, cars and trucks, and got the feel I wanted. With this bike, I know it has ABS or a proportioning valve in the system. Can you get all the air out of the system by the way I did it or do you need a vacuum bleeder to do the job?? If so I will have to make a trip to HF sometime. So question is... On an RT with foot boards, how far does the pedal move before braking resistance is felt and do I need to use a vacuum bleeder to do the job properly? I have always kept the reservoirs full and have never let them go so low(pad wear) that I got a fault code or warning in the dash. Am I over thinking this too much? Come on you PROS out there, tell it to me straight. Mac:gaah:
05-18-2018, 08:59 PM
Warlock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Mac

Decided to bleed the brakes on our machine today because I felt that the pedal was a little "mushy". I had 2" of pedal movement before I felt any "braking resistance" so I thought their was air in the system. Pulled the front wheels and had the wife press on the pedal and I bled the left front 1st, then the right front next. Went to the rear and bled that caliper, had steady stream of fluid out of all 3 calipers. I gained 1/2" less pedal travel before resistance was felt(1 1/2"total instead of 2"). I just don't remember what the pedal felt like when it was new, when the pads, fluid, and hopefully no air in system. I d/n use a vacuum type bleeder, I did it "old school" and I've done ATV's, snowmobiles, motorcycles, cars and trucks, and got the feel I wanted. With this bike, I know it has ABS or a proportioning valve in the system. Can you get all the air out of the system by the way I did it or do you need a vacuum bleeder to do the job?? If so I will have to make a trip to HF sometime. So question is... On an RT with foot boards, how far does the pedal move before braking resistance is felt and do I need to use a vacuum bleeder to do the job properly? I have always kept the reservoirs full and have never let them go so low(pad wear) that I got a fault code or warning in the dash. Am I over thinking this too much? Come on you PROS out there, tell it to me straight. Mac:gaah:

They say to take the caliper off and move it to a place on the rotor so the bleed valve will be straight up and the air will bleed better. When I done mine I took a piece of hose about 3 ft long and put just a little fluid in it and while I pumped the brakes it wouldn't suck air back in. I just bought a brake pressure tool that pusher the fluid back thru the caliper instead of the old fashion way. Used it on my manual brakes to change out the fluids and worked like a charm. Here is what I bought.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Reverse-1-o....c100012.m1985
David
David
05-19-2018, 10:50 AM
Mad Mac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warlock

They say to take the caliper off and move it to a place on the rotor so the bleed valve will be straight up and the air will bleed better. When I done mine I took a piece of hose about 3 ft long and put just a little fluid in it and while I pumped the brakes it wouldn't suck air back in. I just bought a brake pressure tool that pusher the fluid back thru the caliper instead of the old fashion way. Used it on my manual brakes to change out the fluids and worked like a charm. Here is what I bought.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Reverse-1-o....c100012.m1985
David
David

Thanks Warlock, I used a piece of hose with fluid in it also and once the fluid started to flow, the hose never had any air bubbles in it. I am going to HF today and pick up a bleeder tool and see if that will help me get the feel I'm looking for. I've really have never had any issues with bleeding brakes the old fashioned way but maybe these bikes are a bit quirky:dontknow:. I just feel that I should have more resistance sooner with less pedal travel. Thanks again. Mac:doorag:
05-19-2018, 11:07 AM
Bensonoid

Try flushing all of the old fluid out, it should be done every 2 years. I've done mine twice now. There is a bleeder on the ABS module also or there was on mine anyway.
05-19-2018, 11:51 AM
Mad Mac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bensonoid

Try flushing all of the old fluid out, it should be done every 2 years. I've done mine twice now. There is a bleeder on the ABS module also or there was on mine anyway.

I am going to do that after I get the tool from HF today. When we did the bleed on the brakes yesterday, I pumped out close to a pint of old fluid, so I should have pretty fresh fluid in there now. Thanks! Mac:thumbup:
05-19-2018, 11:53 AM
youngers

wondering on the back brake

that back brake , is there an adjustment ? as in some sort of screw and nut adjustment ? getting near my bleed brake and replace fluid time !
05-19-2018, 12:07 PM
Mad Mac

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngers

that back brake , is there an adjustment ? as in some sort of screw and nut adjustment ? getting near my bleed brake and replace fluid time !

The only adjustment that I know of is for the parking brake cable. I believe I have read on here that the mech. the cable attaches to needs to be turned out when replacing the pads, if I read it correctly. Mac:doorag:
05-19-2018, 07:06 PM
Jetfixer

To do it right, you must use the BUDS program. I just finished changing the fluid in my 15 RTL. The service manual procedure is to do an old school type bleeding first, then using the BUDS program, you do it all over again, and keep pumping the brake pedal until the computer tells you to stop at each wheel. Then the program has you do the VSC module bleeder. It will activate the ABS system to purge old fluid from the VSC. It was amazing how nasty that fluid looked after 18000 miles. The BUDS program is the only way you can get the ABS to activate. Otherwise, that fluid is basically trapped in the VSC module.
05-19-2018, 08:18 PM
Mad Mac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetfixer

To do it right, you must use the BUDS program. I just finished changing the fluid in my 15 RTL. The service manual procedure is to do an old school type bleeding first, then using the BUDS program, you do it all over again, and keep pumping the brake pedal until the computer tells you to stop at each wheel. Then the program has you do the VSC module bleeder. It will activate the ABS system to purge old fluid from the VSC. It was amazing how nasty that fluid looked after 18000 miles. The BUDS program is the only way you can get the ABS to activate. Otherwise, that fluid is basically trapped in the VSC module.

Thanks for that piece of important info., sucks you have to take it to a dealer for such a simple task, Oh well. Mac:banghead:
05-19-2018, 10:18 PM
Warlock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetfixer

To do it right, you must use the BUDS program. I just finished changing the fluid in my 15 RTL. The service manual procedure is to do an old school type bleeding first, then using the BUDS program, you do it all over again, and keep pumping the brake pedal until the computer tells you to stop at each wheel. Then the program has you do the VSC module bleeder. It will activate the ABS system to purge old fluid from the VSC. It was amazing how nasty that fluid looked after 18000 miles. The BUDS program is the only way you can get the ABS to activate. Otherwise, that fluid is basically trapped in the VSC module.

There is a bleeder on the VSS system. I have never used BUBS while doing my system. You just don't want to turn the key on while you are bleeding the system and make sure you have a good brake pedal before turning the system on. I bleed the VSS last. Not a easy task getting to it on my GS. But very doable.
David
05-20-2018, 07:58 AM
SpyderJerry

bleeding brakes

There is a bleeder on the VSS system. I have never used BUBS while doing my system. You just don't want to turn the key on while you are bleeding the system and make sure you have a good brake pedal before turning the system on. I bleed the VSS last. Not a easy task getting to it on my GS. But very doable.
David

Very true, I replaced the frame and changed out all units. Bled the brakes manually and the VSS last also, no key on and short strokes on pedal. Had full firm pedal. Buds not needed.
05-20-2018, 08:22 AM
Bensonoid

I flushed my system then went to a steep hill on a hard packed dirt road and activated my ABS 3 times on the way down. After that I went home and flushed again. Don't know how well that worked but it's good enough for who it's for and way better than never changing the fluid.
05-20-2018, 12:27 PM
Mad Mac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bensonoid

I flushed my system then went to a steep hill on a hard packed dirt road and activated my ABS 3 times on the way down. After that I went home and flushed again. Don't know how well that worked but it's good enough for who it's for and way better than never changing the fluid.

NOW that is being "CREATIVE"!! Have to keep that one in mind. One problem, Wisc. D/N have any steep hills!!:roflblack::roflblack: Mac:thumbup:
05-24-2018, 11:33 AM
Mad Mac

Finished bleeding the brakes today and did get a firmer pedal. I did do a complete flush, or as "complete" as possible without trying to find a dealer that I can trust close to me, Flushed the VCM and all 3 calipers and I would say that I got at least a 50% better feel out of the pedal. I even took it out and did a few "panic" stops(idea from Bensonoid post#12) to make the ABS work(probably burnt 10k off my brake pads!) and then went ahead and re-bled the entire system again. I must have went thru a 4 bottles of fluid to get this job completed. Figured I'd give an update for inquiring minds that just have to know.:popcorn: Mac:doorag:
05-24-2018, 04:25 PM
Bensonoid

It's not a bad idea to test your brakes once in awhile even if it doesn't clear fluid out of the module. Glad to hear you got some pedal back.
05-24-2018, 06:15 PM
Mad Mac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bensonoid

It's not a bad idea to test your brakes once in awhile even if it doesn't clear fluid out of the module. Glad to hear you got some pedal back.

When I pull our bike out from it's winter sleep, I always take it for a short ride to get the FEEL back in my butt before the wife saddles-up and yes, those brakes get checked. Thanks all. Mac:doorag: