One more thread about towing

One things that has been made clear to me about towing with a Spyder is to allow extra room for braking. Two more questions (I really do not want to regret spending $1500 to $6000 on a trailer).

1. Is the extra room for braking needed for overall stopping distance or because of potential jack knifing? Admittedly I have not taken measurements, but I have been rising ABS motorcycles since 2008 and I swear the Spyder seems to stop faster. I would think it should still have a lot of braking power even with an extra load.
2. Is there either such a thing as after market brakes for small trailers or a small trailer with brakes? One person suggested getting brakes on the trailer. I have looked at least a dozen trailers and did not see a brake option.

After spending many summers sleeping in a small tent on wildland fires, last year I bought a large tent and cot for general outdoor travel. I found I love the extra room and comfort, and having a chair and table inside when it is raining. While I hope to buy a Lees-ure Lite, I am 100% certain I will be getting a trailer someday to carry the extra stuff.

Thanks for the answers.

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Originally Posted by gnorthern

One things that has been made clear to me about towing with a Spyder is to allow extra room for braking. Two more questions (I really do not want to regret spending $1500 to $6000 on a trailer).

1. Is the extra room for braking needed for overall stopping distance or because of potential jack knifing? Admittedly I have not taken measurements, but I have been rising ABS motorcycles since 2008 and I swear the Spyder seems to stop faster. I would think it should still have a lot of braking power even with an extra load.
2. Is there either such a thing as after market brakes for small trailers or a small trailer with brakes? One person suggested getting brakes on the trailer. I have looked at least a dozen trailers and did not see a brake option.

After spending many summers sleeping in a small tent on wildland fires, last year I bought a large tent and cot for general outdoor travel. I found I love the extra room and comfort, and having a chair and table inside when it is raining. While I hope to buy a Lees-ure Lite, I am 100% certain I will be getting a trailer someday to carry the extra stuff.

Thanks for the answers.

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I have never applied my brakes - at full emergency application, while towing a maximum loaded trailer .....perhaps someone who has will reply ............. The BRP load parameters for towing is 400lbs. , Trl. + what's in it !! .... The spyder can pull way over that amount, I actually towed my Toyt Echo ( 3,000lb. ) for a short distance in my ( hard ) gravel driveway ... I was testing a home made Hitch for my Spyder ... So pulling weight ( within reason ) is not BRP's real concern - it's Stopping ... I think you might find brakes that will work @ e-trailer.com ... They just sent me a message about this exact situation ( I didn't keep it tho :banghead: ) ..... and this would be something you would ADD to a trailer you already own, I have never seen them on a for sale trailer .... generally speaking a car or truck wouldn't need them for such a lightweight ( for a car etc. ) trailer ...... Hope this starts you on your quest ............ annnd Merry Christmas .... Mike:thumbup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gnorthern

One things that has been made clear to me about towing with a Spyder is to allow extra room for braking. Two more questions (I really do not want to regret spending $1500 to $6000 on a trailer).

1. Is the extra room for braking needed for overall stopping distance or because of potential jack knifing? Admittedly I have not taken measurements, but I have been rising ABS motorcycles since 2008 and I swear the Spyder seems to stop faster. I would think it should still have a lot of braking power even with an extra load.
2. Is there either such a thing as after market brakes for small trailers or a small trailer with brakes? One person suggested getting brakes on the trailer. I have looked at least a dozen trailers and did not see a brake option.

After spending many summers sleeping in a small tent on wildland fires, last year I bought a large tent and cot for general outdoor travel. I found I love the extra room and comfort, and having a chair and table inside when it is raining. While I hope to buy a Lees-ure Lite, I am 100% certain I will be getting a trailer someday to carry the extra stuff.

Thanks for the answers.

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Watch the loaded weight of the trailer so you don't go over it, or not by much anyway! 400 lbs is the specified towing limit. The extra distance for stopping is simply because you're bringing more weight to a stop with the same brake capacity. Brakes that will stop 1000 lbs in X feet won't stop 1400 lbs in the same distance with the same braking force.

I wouldn't mess with trailer brakes. There was a discussion about that here awhile back. http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ler-for-camper. You might glean some worthwhile info from this thread also. http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ers-and-the-RT.

I did have to apply the brakes in an emergency situation while towing a loaded trailer and it did not jack knife. It did get a bit squirrelly and I may have required new underwear at the next stop but it didn’t jack knife. I carry all of the tools that we use for aligning Spyders so when I say my trailer is loaded, I’m not kidding.

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Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder

Watch the loaded weight of the trailer so you don't go over it, or not by much anyway! 400 lbs is the specified towing limit. The extra distance for stopping is simply because you're bringing more weight to a stop with the same brake capacity. Brakes that will stop 1000 lbs in X feet won't stop 1400 lbs in the same distance with the same braking force.

I wouldn't mess with trailer brakes. There was a discussion about that here awhile back. http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ler-for-camper. You might glean some worthwhile info from this thread also. http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ers-and-the-RT.

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Thanks for those links.

They raised two more questions.
1. The threads mention hydraulic brakes. Are those the same thing as surge brakes? While I know most brakes are hydraulic, they were being contrasted with electric.
2. Do you think it is OK to go to 470-480 pounds if I get brakes and if I can manage the tongue weight? In the links I learned of another brand trailer that interests me, Roll-a-home. While the model my wife would want me to get (380 pounds empty) would clearly put me over the weight limit, they do have a brake option.

I've logged over 50,000 miles pulling 4 different trailers with my Spyder, My wife has over 30,000 miles logged pulling the dog trailer that weighs 250 + dog and sometimes a gear-bag. Our Aspen pop up weighs in at 430 lbs, completely loaded with a box of fire wood . The other trailers weigh less. I have locked it up twice and it did not jack-knife, but I was on dry pavement. I've pulled trailers for years and you just need to keep extra alert, but then again one should ALWAYS ride like everyone on the road may not see you our care. I am more tired at the end of the day when pulling a trailer but then again I like having the option of staying when and where I want to. You can take a hotel room at the end of the day or camp out, sometimes there are no hotels where you want to stay and even at 66 years old I still love camping out just not sleeping on the ground. As long as your not way over loaded I would go for it.

Leaving more distance is the most important thing. I pulled trailers with spyder and goldwing on 2 wheels. Its safer on the Spyder to pull a trailer but I still like the extra space just in case. You still have to remember that loading a trailer is to use the 60- 40 set up from front to back. I pulled a cut down harbor freight trl for years and never had no issues with stopping. Other that some idiot in a car pulling out in front of us then turning off in the next street. That kinda gets your attention real fast.

It's easy to forget the trailer is back there when cruising. Just give a little extra room for stopping and passing. Same common sense you need when towing anything behind any vehicle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gnorthern

Thanks for those links.

They raised two more questions.
1. The threads mention hydraulic brakes. Are those the same thing as surge brakes? While I know most brakes are hydraulic, they were being contrasted with electric.
2. Do you think it is OK to go to 470-480 pounds if I get brakes and if I can manage the tongue weight? In the links I learned of another brand trailer that interests me, Roll-a-home. While the model my wife would want me to get (380 pounds empty) would clearly put me over the weight limit, they do have a brake option.

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Surge brakes are a specific configuration of hydraulic brakes. There is a piston in the tongue that gets pressed when the bike slows down by the trailer pushing against it. That actuates the brakes. The benefit of them over electric brakes is the braking force is directly proportional to how fast your are slowing down. Slow down slowly and the brakes brake very little. Slow down fast and hard the brakes brake harder. On a pickup the electric brake actuator is tied into the brake system so you can have the same effect. But on the Spyder I don't see any practical way to set up a controller to operate proportionally so as I see it you have more braking that you need when you slow down easily, and not enough braking when you slow down hard. The problem with surge brakes is the cost and weight of all the hardware required.

You are dealing with three competing limitations, the total weight you can safely pull with the Spyder. That probably is more than the specified 400 lbs. but no one is going to go on record clearly stating that. For ideal trailer handling you need to have a 60/40 split of the total weight in front and behind the wheel centerline. Then you have the tongue limit of 40 pounds. You can have a 1000 lb trailer with a 60/40 split and get the tongue weight below 40 lbs by having a longer tongue. You know, a longer lever requires less force. However, good practice for trailers is to keep the tongue weight between 10 and 15% of the total trailer weight. That guideline limits you to a total weight of 400 lbs. But then you have the issue of trailer tracking stability. The longer the distance from the wheel centerline to the hitch ball the easier it will be for the trailer to start swaying. Brakes for stopping won't prevent swaying. I can't say for sure but I think a heavy trailer with light tongue weight is also more prone to swaying.

My recommendation would be stay as close to the 400 lb and 40 lb limits as you can. Don't try to fudge the capabilities of the Spyder by relying on trailer brakes. It's been some time since I weighed my trailer but I think it's around 450 and 45. I haven't noticed any problem other than lack of upper end torque for passing at Interstate speeds, gas mileage going down the toilet, and longer stopping distances. Otherwise, it pulls great.

I remember a lot of years ago (before I bought our Spyder trailer) I used to think "who the heck would want to pull a trailer with a motorcycle". Funny how age (or experience) can change your opinion.

Our evo-pod camper has hydraulic (surge) brakes, and is also under the weight limit even when fully loaded with wine and other essentials. Further, we do not use the brp swingarm hitch and instead prefer frame mounted towbar. Absolutely no problems with this set-up on our ST or F3S. We also towed with the RS, but then we had a simple camper with no extra braking - about the same weight as our evo-pod. Mind you, we are old and sensible and, whichever one of us is doing the towing, we ride to the conditions and allow for the extra load - and the towing bike takes the lead and sets the pace.