Revisiting front end wobble

[Pennyrick]

There have been lots of back and forths on this topic but I thought I would post this since someone may have experienced the same problem.

I have a 2012 RT Limited. Yesterday it went in to the dealer to have the rear tire replaced (12,500 miles) and the front tires dismounted,rotated, remounted and balanced. Seemed pretty straightforward until I started home today and got a front end shake at 41-44 mph. I returned to the dealer but it was late in the day and we decided I would live with the problem, hoping it may get better (but knowing deep down inside that it won't).

I drove home finding that the wobble is not constant. About one out of five times I got the shakes at 41 mph and lost them at about 45 mph. This was in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear (I didn't want to lug the engine any lower than that). I can stop it by accelerating but not by braking unless I really get on them hard!

When my Spyder had 500 miles on it I had almost the same problem and after a lot of balancing, rebalancing and aligning we finally traced it to a broken belt in one of the front tires. We took a wheel off of a showroom machine to test this out and when we mounted it on the right front, the problem went away so the dealer replaced one tire.

We're wondering what could have taken place in the dismount/remount activity to make this happen. I'm not sure I want to buy new front tires as they still look good with no uneven wear or cupping but that may be the only answer.

We're leaving on a trip on the 29th and I sure don't want to have this going on while I have the trailer hooked up.

[my3gs]

Have u ever tried Ride On ??? I have a 12 RT Limited I have never had a wobble but thought it mite help the balance???

[Pennyrick]

Have u ever tried Ride On ??? I have a 12 RT Limited I have never had a wobble but thought it mite help the balance???

Thanks,,, I thought of it but I think I'll stick with air in the tires.

Did get a call from my dealer this morning offering to install and balance new fronts at his cost. I'm thinking that is the route I will go.

[SpyderAnn01]

Thanks,,, I thought of it but I think I'll stick with air in the tires.

Did get a call from my dealer this morning offering to install and balance new fronts at his cost. I'm thinking that is the route I will go.
Is he buying the rubber too?

[Pennyrick]

Is he buying the rubber too?

I had a great response to that question having to do with a vasectomy but I thought better of posting that.

He is selling me the tires at cost and I am happy with that.

[ARtraveler]

Sounds like a good deal on new front tires. I would go with that option--then you will have new tires all around.

Another possibility--when the tires were rotated--they may have been "worn in" to a particular pattern and that may need to be worked out over a few miles.

[StanProff]

Thanks,,, I thought of it but I think I'll stick with air in the tires.

Did get a call from my dealer this morning offering to install and balance new fronts at his cost. I'm thinking that is the route I will go.

That seems the best way to go. you'll have new rubber at cost and that makes up for a few thousand miles left on the tires that you have. I know that anytime rubber is dismounted and installed to another rim there is a possibility of out of balance situation coming up. usually it can be re balanced but sometimes it takes a time or too to get it right. The Spyders are very sensitive to these issues weighting in at just over 900 lbs. instead of a car bouncing in at 3000. the car will absorb a lot of quirks that we will feel in the spyder. that's just the way it is. I have been extreamly satisified with my 2010 RT S in that it has always been very smooth on the road in regards to the tires. I have commeted many times to my wife about how smooth the spyder is at freeway speeds. Couldn't be better. I have never had the tires rotated but i do keep an eye on the pressures. I now have 13,600 miles on them and the tread is amazingly even and not worn to any noticeable degree. I did replace the rear at 12,000 due to being worn in the center. (may have been from over inflation). i take the blame for that one :banghead:. Good luck and I am sure the new tires will be fine.

[Chupaca]

radials normally are rotated from front to back basically for wear from braking and tracking. I have found they are not happy swapped left for right. May clear up after some miles may not depending on the tires. Watch the rotation...!! :dontknow:

[captblack]

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I have the same issue and although it is getting better I think the only fix is new tires. I replaced my rear tire at 20k miles and that is when the tires were rotated. I think that is the problem. If the rotation was done at 5K it might have been just fine.

[Pennyrick]

That seems the best way to go. you'll have new rubber at cost and that makes up for a few thousand miles left on the tires that you have. I know that anytime rubber is dismounted and installed to another rim there is a possibility of out of balance situation coming up. usually it can be re balanced but sometimes it takes a time or too to get it right. The Spyders are very sensitive to these issues weighting in at just over 900 lbs. instead of a car bouncing in at 3000. the car will absorb a lot of quirks that we will feel in the spyder. that's just the way it is.

That is an extremely good point, StanProf. Even though I watched them run on the high speed balancer, there is probably some little quirk that makes one of them hop at 41 mph.

We are taking my wife's RT in next week for the same servicing (both Spyders are at 12,500 miles) but I think we will just leave the fronts on hers as is. Like mine, hers show no uneven wear or cupping so we will go with the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' philosophy on her machine.

[NancysToy]

That is an extremely good point, StanProf. Even though I watched them run on the high speed balancer, there is probably some little quirk that makes one of them hop at 41 mph.

We are taking my wife's RT in next week for the same servicing (both Spyders are at 12,500 miles) but I think we will just leave the fronts on hers as is. Like mine, hers show no uneven wear or cupping so we will go with the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' philosophy on her machine.
Often, as the tread gets thin, a tire will balance fine, but will show a vibration just because the slightly more rigid spot where the belt overlaps is less cushioned, and begins to react with the road. This effect can be enhanced if both tires happen to have the belt lap make contact with the road at the same time. It can also vary with speed, for some reason...probably a harmonic effect. This malady is a bear to diagnose. My dad was a police mechanic and used to have to balance and true police car tires when they were in the cop shop. He'd use a process of elimination. If the tire balanced, and was shaved true on the tire lathe, he'd spin it again at a different speed. Often that would put the tire back out of true, and sometimes back out of balance. If it passed the testing, but still showed a problem on the road, it was replaced.

[Bob Ledford]

I had a similar problem at cold temperatures around 50 degrees F at precisely 41/42 MPH the whoLE front END WOULD BOUNCE? We never did find the real cause because it warmed up and never acted up again. I watch it like a Hawk. BRP recommended to the dealer, Daytona Fun Machines, Holly Hill,FL, to substitute tires and wheels off of a known good Spyder demonstrator.

From the sound of it you dealer cares which is wonderful don't lose him!

[Sarge707]

There have been lots of back and forths on this topic but I thought I would post this since someone may have experienced the same problem.

I have a 2012 RT Limited. Yesterday it went in to the dealer to have the rear tire replaced (12,500 miles) and the front tires dismounted,rotated, remounted and balanced. Seemed pretty straightforward until I started home today and got a front end shake at 41-44 mph. I returned to the dealer but it was late in the day and we decided I would live with the problem, hoping it may get better (but knowing deep down inside that it won't).

I drove home finding that the wobble is not constant. About one out of five times I got the shakes at 41 mph and lost them at about 45 mph. This was in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear (I didn't want to lug the engine any lower than that). I can stop it by accelerating but not by braking unless I really get on them hard!

When my Spyder had 500 miles on it I had almost the same problem and after a lot of balancing, rebalancing and aligning we finally traced it to a broken belt in one of the front tires. We took a wheel off of a showroom machine to test this out and when we mounted it on the right front, the problem went away so the dealer replaced one tire.

We're wondering what could have taken place in the dismount/remount activity to make this happen. I'm not sure I want to buy new front tires as they still look good with no uneven wear or cupping but that may be the only answer.

We're leaving on a trip on the 29th and I sure don't want to have this going on while I have the trailer hooked up.

Please let us know if the New tires help???

I,m having the same problem at Mostly Exactly 42 MPH. I had 17 weights in a row and the dealer rebalanced and now there are an acceptable amount of weights. I took off the Elka,s (Back on the GS where they started) JUST to make sure everything is stock if I have to get BRP help.
It still will wobble back and forth BUT only if I hold it EXACTLY at 42 MPH- Did it several times this afternoon- I have to consciously try to make it wobble otherwise it happens just 3 or 4 times during a afternoon as I am at that MPH.

Luckily I have the GS (With almost new tires) that I will swap for a test tommorrow. The GS wheel only has 3 spokes but I don,t think that should be any problem? I,ll let you know!:pray:

I do know the tire people hate the 6 Spoke tires as far as Changing them!!nojoke

[ABQAndy]

I have the same problem on my 2012 RT. The dealer says I don't have a problem but 50% of the time in the 41 to 44 mph range (usually 3rd gear) I get front end wobble. Very aggravating :gaah:. It really seems odd that most of us are experiencing this in the same mph range. Please keep us informed regarding resolving the issue. Thanks.

[Rando]

New OEM tires fixed my front end wobble. It was like a new Spyder afterwards!

[ABQAndy]

New OEM tires fixed my front end wobble. It was like a new Spyder afterwards!

Not sure how long you have had your Spyder, were your tires replaced under warranty??

[Rando]

Not sure how long you have had your Spyder, were your tires replaced under warranty??No, I waited too long. It was over 6 months.

I took the wheels off and went to Belle Tire. They spun them up and quickly determined that they were defective. I purchased a new set from Honda East of Toledo, a site sponsor.

[BaldEagle]

Just caught this thread and wanted to ask if anyone experienced this. Have a 2012 RTS and just rolled over 7k miles. Coming home from work noticed vibration and the left tire wobbling back and forth. Right side rolling smoothly. Eased off the throttle and it stopped. Happened again yesterday just on the left side. Tire wear is perfect on both front tires and have never had an issue till now. Torqued lugs and checked for loose front end bolts and everything tight. Tire pressures good. Only work done recently on front end was I installed a new Bajaron swaybar but don't see how this could be affecting it. I was wondering if a tire belt problem could suddenly develop and if this might be the issue? Any thoughts? :dontknow:

[Sarge707]

I had a great response to that question having to do with a vasectomy but I thought better of posting that.

He is selling me the tires at cost and I am happy with that.

Let us know if the New tires do the trick??:pray:

[Sarge707]

I have the same problem on my 2012 RT. The dealer says I don't have a problem but 50% of the time in the 41 to 44 mph range (usually 3rd gear) I get front end wobble. Very aggravating :gaah:. It really seems odd that most of us are experiencing this in the same mph range. Please keep us informed regarding resolving the issue. Thanks.

Test Canceled? GS wheels require 1/2 inch spacers on the fender if I want to try them Soo will take it to Dealer next week and have him run it at 42 MPH- When he feels the wobble I hope for a positive result?:dontknow:

[NancysToy]

Just caught this thread and wanted to ask if anyone experienced this. Have a 2012 RTS and just rolled over 7k miles. Coming home from work noticed vibration and the left tire wobbling back and forth. Right side rolling smoothly. Eased off the throttle and it stopped. Happened again yesterday just on the left side. Tire wear is perfect on both front tires and have never had an issue till now. Torqued lugs and checked for loose front end bolts and everything tight. Tire pressures good. Only work done recently on front end was I installed a new Bajaron swaybar but don't see how this could be affecting it. I was wondering if a tire belt problem could suddenly develop and if this might be the issue? Any thoughts? :dontknow:

Jack that side up and check wheel bearing for play, shock bushings, a-arm bushings, ball joints, and tie-rod end for play, and check for a-arm or tie-rod damage. Also check for frame damage, like cracks in a mounting bracket or worn bolt holes where the suspension attaches. The swaybar could have accented an existing problem, but likey wouldn't cause one.

[BaldEagle]

Thanks for the insight Scotty. I'll check those items mentioned before I take the bike in for a scheduled maintenance.:thumbup:

[Bob Ledford]

[QUOTE=BaldEagle;I was wondering if a tire belt problem could suddenly develop and if this might be the issue? Any thoughts? :dontknow:[/QUOTE]

certainly can a radial regardless of type can "bust a belt in a nanosecond."

[Pennyrick]

Just remembered I forgot to close out this thread.

New tires installed Monday and have put about 300 miles on the RT since then with absolutely not wobble or kick back from the front end.

Tires were the problem.

Moral is DO NOT ROTATE FRONT TIRES!!

[Sarge707]

Just remembered I forgot to close out this thread.

New tires installed Monday and have put about 300 miles on the RT since then with absolutely not wobble or kick back from the front end.

Tires were the problem.

Moral is DO NOT ROTATE FRONT TIRES!!

I don,t know About that- I rotated the fronts on my GS at 8,000 miles as they were wearing more on the inside (But evenly) and They were fine as I did not have to replace them till 18,000 miles and some would have left them longer.:dontknow:

[Pennyrick]

I don,t know About that- I rotated the fronts on my GS at 8,000 miles as they were wearing more on the inside (But evenly) and They were fine as I did not have to replace them till 18,000 miles and some would have left them longer.:dontknow:

Well, based on the feedback to this thread I'd say you are in the minority. But if it worked for you that is great.

My advice still stands... 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it!".

[Sarge707]

Well, based on the feedback to this thread I'd say you are in the minority. But if it worked for you that is great.

My advice still stands... 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it!".

I agree you would have been better off just to leave the fronts alone at 12,500 If as you say they were wearing evenly!!
Mine were wearing more on the inside and if I didn,t rotate them they wouldn,t last 10,000 BUT with the rotation they lasted 18,000.
My New GS tires (BRP) after 6,000 miles are wearing perfectly even (So Far) and I think the little extra height of the Elka,s has made the difference. I hope these last 25,000 and I won,t rotate unless the wear becomes uneven.

[ABQAndy]

I think that I have cured my front end wobble problem (between 40-44 mph). I took the advise of one SL member and BALANCED my front tire pressures as close as I possibly could at 18 psi. On my ride today I didn't have on incidence of wobble :thumbup:

[BajaRon]

I agree you would have been better off just to leave the fronts alone at 12,500 If as you say they were wearing evenly!!
Mine were wearing more on the inside and if I didn,t rotate them they wouldn,t last 10,000 BUT with the rotation they lasted 18,000.
My New GS tires (BRP) after 6,000 miles are wearing perfectly even (So Far) and I think the little extra height of the Elka,s has made the difference. I hope these last 25,000 and I won,t rotate unless the wear becomes uneven.

If your tires are wearing unevenly then you have an alignment issue. Rotating them simply spreads the problem around to other parts of the tire.

Raising the front of the Spyder changes steering/alignment geometry. If you're lucky it will counteract the original alignment problem. If you're not it will make it worse.

[BajaRon]

Just remembered I forgot to close out this thread.

New tires installed Monday and have put about 300 miles on the RT since then with absolutely not wobble or kick back from the front end.

Tires were the problem.

Moral is DO NOT ROTATE FRONT TIRES!!

Glad you were able to get this fixed. Would be nice to know why new tires did the job.

Cord or belt separation may have been the issue but that is usually easily seen. Rotating the tires should not have caused or even aggravated this issue as the tires would still be rotating in the same direction. (I believe you did say that you dismounted and remounted the tires as necessary to have them rotate the same direction) Since you didn't have the problem until after rotating the tires, I'm thinking this is not the likely answer.

If the tires were wearing unevenly then most likely the original issue was bad alignment causing the wear. Rotating the tires would have required a balance job and this could have been neglected or done poorly.

Rotating tires (especially on the front) with improper, uneven wear, coupled with an alignment problem can set up a wobble condition depending on how, and how badly the tires were worn.

I would keep an eye on your new tires. If your alignment is bad you'll soon get wear in the same area as with your previous tires. If you see this happenening then you need to get an alignment before you waste a 2nd set of tires.

[Pennyrick]

Glad you were able to get this fixed. Would be nice to know why new tires did the job.

Cord or belt separation may have been the issue but that is usually easily seen. Rotating the tires should not have caused or even aggravated this issue as the tires would still be rotating in the same direction. (I believe you did say that you dismounted and remounted the tires as necessary to have them rotate the same direction) Since you didn't have the problem until after rotating the tires, I'm thinking this is not the likely answer.

If the tires were wearing unevenly then most likely the original issue was bad alignment causing the wear. Rotating the tires would have required a balance job and this could have been neglected or done poorly.

Rotating tires (especially on the front) with improper, uneven wear, coupled with an alignment problem can set up a wobble condition depending on how, and how badly the tires were worn.

I would keep an eye on your new tires. If your alignment is bad you'll soon get wear in the same area as with your previous tires. If you see this happenening then you need to get an alignment before you waste a 2nd set of tires.

There was no uneven wear or cupping on the tires. I just thought it would be a good idea to rotate them (mount and dismount). I liked Scotty's explanation and my tech agrees that was probably the problem.....Often, as the tread gets thin, a tire will balance fine, but will show a vibration just because the slightly more rigid spot where the belt overlaps is less cushioned, and begins to react with the road. This effect can be enhanced if both tires happen to have the belt lap make contact with the road at the same time. It can also vary with speed, for some reason...probably a harmonic effect. This malady is a bear to diagnose. Scotty

[Sarge707]

As with many I have been having that off and on wobble from 40-42 MPH where the whole front end shakes back and forth.
Finally broke down and bought 2 New tires and couldn,t get it to wobble once today- And I tried everything I could think of-40-42 in 2nd gear-40-42 in third gear-Uphill, downhill, coasting??? Its fixed :bowdown::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Can-Am-BRP-Spyder-Roadster-Front-Tires-165-65-R14-Kenda-/180640094202?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a0efd17fa&vxp=mtr

Showed dealer this EBay link where I could get 2 New tires from Leadersmarine in michigan for $149 delivered and asked him to match the price??? He played TOUGH but got me them for $150 Plus tax so I saved $30 from retail!

It rides Sooo Much nicer and smoother so if you still have the problem use the link or print it and have your dealer match it?:dontknow:

Its like a New RT Not Having to wonder when the front end is going to wobble!!!!:bowdown:

[Pennyrick]

As with many I have been having that off and on wobble from 40-42 MPH where the whole front end shakes back and forth.
Finally broke down and bought 2 New tires and couldn,t get it to wobble once today- And I tried everything I could think of-40-42 in 2nd gear-40-42 in third gear-Uphill, downhill, coasting??? Its fixed :bowdown::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Can-Am-BRP-Spyder-Roadster-Front-Tires-165-65-R14-Kenda-/180640094202?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a0efd17fa&vxp=mtr

Showed dealer this EBay link where I could get 2 New tires from Leadersmarine in michigan for $149 delivered and asked him to match the price??? He played TOUGH but got me them for $150 Plus tax so I saved $30 from retail!

It rides Sooo Much nicer and smoother so if you still have the problem use the link or print it and have your dealer match it?:dontknow:

Its like a New RT Not Having to wonder when the front end is going to wobble!!!!:bowdown:


Glad you got your problem solved as economically as possible.

[AZCowboy]

Glad you got your problem solved as economically as possible.

My started around 5,000 miles and you couldn't control it. It was that bad and the dealer found it. The problem with the tire was it was coming apart inside and didn't have 5,000 miles on the bike yet. BRP would only replace that tire not the other as they should have by there own book. :yikes:RJ

[reverendg]

One thing I haven't heard mentioned here regarding the tire rotations is how carefully the tires were remounted. Elsewhere on the forum here, I know the eccentricity (out of roundness) of the tires and wheels was addressed. It is quite possible this tire/wheel relationship is being neglected in the remount, causing out of round assemblies. If a formerly well-balanced tire suddenly needs a lot of weight to balance, this is likely. An out of round tire/wheel assembly with a lot of weight to balance it is a good source of problems. Apparently 41-45 mph is a critical frequency as far as the spyder front end design goes, a harmonic hot spot. The simplest insurance of maintaining a proper wheel/tire relationship is to make sure the position of the valve stem is marked on the tire prior to dismounting, and when the tire is reversed, the relationship to the valve stem is maintained.

[Pennyrick]

One thing I haven't heard mentioned here regarding the tire rotations is how carefully the tires were remounted. Elsewhere on the forum here, I know the eccentricity (out of roundness) of the tires and wheels was addressed. It is quite possible this tire/wheel relationship is being neglected in the remount, causing out of round assemblies. If a formerly well-balanced tire suddenly needs a lot of weight to balance, this is likely. An out of round tire/wheel assembly with a lot of weight to balance it is a good source of problems. Apparently 41-45 mph is a critical frequency as far as the spyder front end design goes, a harmonic hot spot. The simplest insurance of maintaining a proper wheel/tire relationship is to make sure the position of the valve stem is marked on the tire prior to dismounting, and when the tire is reversed, the relationship to the valve stem is maintained.


Good thought. Too late for me but useful information for others.

[reverendg]

Good thought. Too late for me but useful information for others.If the tire/wheel assembly that seems to be the source of the problem has a lot of weights on it, breaking the beads and rotating the tire 180 degrees around the rim to see if it balances better is a good "check" for this situation.

[Sarge707]

If the tire/wheel assembly that seems to be the source of the problem has a lot of weights on it, breaking the beads and rotating the tire 180 degrees around the rim to see if it balances better is a good "check" for this situation.

Thats what my dealer initially did- I had 12 weights in a row on one tire and they remounted and had balanced for Free- When that didn,t work I bought the 2 New tires and That solved the problem!!!

[ABQAndy]

I thought I had my front end wobble problem solved with even air pressure in the front tires but it resurfaced on my trip to Sturgis. I guess it could be my front tires. I now have 9,500 miles on them and I am continously getting wobble between 40 and 43 mph. Very aggrevating as that is a very common speed in town. Tires show very little wear so I am reluctant to replace them simply because they still look very serviceable.

[Sarge707]

I thought I had my front end wobble problem solved with even air pressure in the front tires but it resurfaced on my trip to Sturgis. I guess it could be my front tires. I now have 9,500 miles on them and I am continously getting wobble between 40 and 43 mph. Very aggrevating as that is a very common speed in town. Tires show very little wear so I am reluctant to replace them simply because they still look very serviceable.

I know how ya feel-My wobble went away when we had 10 days of 95 degree Temps with 75 dew point BUT with the normal 70s-80s it started again! It got so the $$ to replace was worth it knowing the wobble is Not going to do any damage to the suspension parts which could cost a lot more $$? :dontknow: